The Gaming Den

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Who's the dishonest one now, mean_liar?

Lago, are you confused?

You ask this question like the answer has changed, but it has been mean liar the entire time who is being dishonest.

Oh, fuck off. I'm getting it from all sides and I simply cannot respond to every single claim. You didn't mention it for a few pages and I simply thought we'd moved on. Considering the raft of links I posted up about autoimmune disorders I suppose you all just abandoned those then, huh, and totally accept that its an issue.

Here's your answer:

DPT/DTaP/etc are the most-popular formulations. However, it is already available separately for Tetanus and Pertussis - they need not be packaged.

Same deal for MMR.

Considering the link I posted earlier that ties rapidity of vaccination with higher incidence of autoimmune disease it makes sense to at least examine the relationship and possibility that a series of spaced-out individual vaccines would have less adverse effects.

Kaelik wrote:

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Who's the dishonest one now, mean_liar?

Lago, are you confused?

You ask this question like the answer has changed, but it has been mean liar the entire time who is being dishonest.

Considering the amount of shit I'm absorbing here, the basic credibility that I'm squandering in order to defend an issue I feel is worth defending and the fact that I own up to my mistakes when I make them, this a horribly offensive statement.

It's doubly so considering its coming from someone who has displayed only the barest literacy in this debate and whose main purpose as of late is to pop in once in a while to remind us all that you're not paying attention and generally just an asshole.

mean_liar wrote:DPT/DTaP/etc are the most-popular formulations. However, it is already available separately for Tetanus and Pertussis - they need not be packaged.

Same deal for MMR.

Considering the link I posted earlier that ties rapidity of vaccination with higher incidence of autoimmune disease it makes sense to at least examine the relationship and possibility that a series of spaced-out individual vaccines would have less adverse effects.

Wholly Shit! Maybe you are just stupid and not actually a liar.

1) It's one vaccination. You literally cannot have a rapid schedule on a single shot. That's actually impossible. Multiple shots could result in rapid vaccination, but that's what happens when you don't use the combo shot.

You are advocating creating more vaccinations in order to solve the problem of too many vaccinations (a problem you have personally made up with no influence from anyone).

That is negative sense. That is the exact opposite of what you want. You want all vaccines to be in one shot so that you actually have no rapidity of vaccination because the time between vaccinations would actually be infinity.

More shots does not solve the problem of too many shots. I thought you were bitching about too much Aluminum, what happened, do you have a new completely unmentioned reason for why viruses are bad?

2) What fucking link? This is exactly the fucking bullshit dishonest lies I am talking about.

You claim some link conclusively demonstrates that rapid vaccinations are linked with auto immune disease.

WTF? You never said that in the post with the actual fucking links:

Oh shit I guess the NIH is against Big Science too.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/925496/Prog ... e-Research

"Though each of the autoimmune diseases is relatively rare, as a group they are among the most prevalent in the United States, affecting between 14.7 and 23.5 million people – up to eight percent of the population. They also are a leading cause of death among young and middle-aged women. For reasons that are poorly understood, the incidence and prevalence of autoimmune diseases is rising."

I posted this earlier (read it yourself for fun and profit on p8) but hey, I guess since it conflicts with your assumptions its full of shit. What's notable is that the US uses more vaccinations than any other country and has the highest prevalence, but hey that's probably just some NIH bullshit to fight Big Science on behalf of Nurgle. Or something. Those crazy kooks at the NIH!

Have some more!

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/extract/346/22/1749
http://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/ea/0 ... 16s3.1.htm
http://tinyurl.com/yesxtsg
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2156/5/5
http://www.neurology.org/cgi/content/citation/73/8/578
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/jour ... 6/abstract

Those are all a bunch of bullshit websites though, because I linked to them.

You just posted a shit ton of links together with no description, except the first one which is not descriptive of that at all.

But now suddenly one of the links you posted happens to prove that vaccinations cause auto immune disorders? Whty didn't you say this very important point in your fuckin post?

Not to mention the dishonesty of addressing my fucking joke instead of any of my actual post. Because of course, a five year old can easily tell that auto immune diseases should become more common as other diseases become less common.

This is exactly the lack of literacy I'm talking about.

I mentioned this twice, earlier. Frequencies can be spread out and exposure to unknown adjuvant risks limited, but we don't know what that will do. Preliminary research indicates this could be a good thing.

Intensity of vaccination may also be a contributing factor in addition to the rapidity of injections, and nothing that I said implied otherwise.

There is no reason why a spread-out schedule cannot simply be spread MORE. I have no idea why this simple idea would escape your notice, other than your disinterest in actually reading anything that might conflict with your presuppositions or interfere with your "ME TOO GUYZ" posting.


So here's the first time I mentioned it.

mean_liar wrote:http://tinyurl.com/yg8d5ct

"Results
Among 11, 531 children who received at least 4 doses of DPT, the risk of asthma was reduced to ½ in children whose first dose of DPT was delayed by more than 2 months. The likelihood of asthma in children with delays in all 3 doses was 0.39 (95% CI, 0.18-0.86).

Conclusion
We found a negative association between delay in administration of the first dose of whole-cell DPT immunization in childhood and the development of asthma; the association was greater with delays in all of the first 3 doses. The mechanism for this phenomenon requires further research."
\

Then it was repeated again, a few posts later:

mean_liar wrote:Edited my previous post to give you links. Enjoy!

Since they disagree with your tautology we can disregard them though. Whew! That was close!

Seriously, I've been actually responding to these arguments, sometimes well and sometimes poorly but always with links and always with supporting documentation. If I'm wrong I correct myself and admit mistakes, but your "NO U" crap is just bullshit.


...



http://tinyurl.com/yg8d5ct

"Results
Among 11, 531 children who received at least 4 doses of DPT, the risk of asthma was reduced to ½ in children whose first dose of DPT was delayed by more than 2 months. The likelihood of asthma in children with delays in all 3 doses was 0.39 (95% CI, 0.18-0.86).

Conclusion
We found a negative association between delay in administration of the first dose of whole-cell DPT immunization in childhood and the development of asthma; the association was greater with delays in all of the first 3 doses. The mechanism for this phenomenon requires further research."


That one's my favorite.

But how the fuck could anyone expect you to reeeeeeeeeeeeeead.


Hell, I'll add that those links you thought were talking about this, WERE POSTED IN RESPONSE TO YOU. You asked for anything about autoimmune disorder incidences rising and so I not only REPOSTED one link that already DIRECTLY answered that question THAT YOU ASKED, but I then followed it up with a series of links that you had asked for THAT YOU DIDN'T READ AT ALL.

mean_liar wrote:Hell, I'll add that those links you thought were talking about this, WERE POSTED IN RESPONSE TO YOU. You asked for anything about autoimmune disorder incidences rising and so I not only REPOSTED one link that already DIRECTLY answered that question THAT YOU ASKED, but I then followed it up with a series of links that you had asked for THAT YOU DIDN'T READ AT ALL.

NO I DIDN'T! I CAN USE CAPSLOCK TOO!

I specifically did not ask for it at all, I made a fucking joke about how you make bullshit up. Like this post, where you made up the part about me asking for that information.

Or like this part:

I mentioned this twice, earlier. Frequencies can be spread out and exposure to unknown adjuvant risks limited, but we don't know what that will do. Preliminary research indicates this could be a good thing.

Intensity of vaccination may also be a contributing factor in addition to the rapidity of injections, and nothing that I said implied otherwise.

Where you make up all this shit with no evidence. You have presented zero evidence that spreading out frequencies reduces unknown risks. Which isn't surprising, because you are genuinely claiming that an action would save us from unknown risks, which is all kind of stupid.

Or the part where you claim that intensity may also be a contributing factor in a as yet unspecified problem. Fuck you. That statement is based on what evidence again? Oh right, your feelings. That's all.

But let's get on to your actual link that you edited into a previous post and then got mad at me for not retroactively going back and reading all your posts over again:

Slower injection resulted in lower cases of child onset asthma? You mean the kind that people grow out of? Yes. Making someone's immune system work really hard to immunize itself against diseases sometimes results in it getting too active and a temporary, almost completely harmless condition. So fucking what? Nobody but you is concerned about temporary conditions from overstimulated immune systems.

You were complaining about auto-immune disorders. What happened to that? Did you actually just mean asthma only this whole time?

Which is it:

Were you saying 'auto-immune' only, and avoiding the word asthma specifically to dishonestly inflate your asthma concern to disproportionate levels so that you could trick people who just take your word that vaccines have anything to do with MS or Lupus?

Or is it that you are genuinely too stupid to understand why child onset asthma after a particularly rigorous set of vaccinations has nothing to do with getting Lupus or MS later in life, even after Frank actually explained to you how vaccinations work?

mean_liar wrote:Unfortunately, THE RESEARCH DOESN'T EXIST. (EDIT: Not conclusively, anyway). What the fuck do you want, a link to a Google page with no results?

So if the research exists, but you admit yourself that it doesn't support your hypothesis, why are you still trying to convince people that your assertions regarding the dangers of vaccinations should be taken seriously?

mean_liar wrote:Read #3 with me, will you? It's fun!

"a strong case for rare, individual dissension"

There is NO CASE for rare, individual dissension. And here's why:

As I mentioned earlier, diphtheria circulation appears to continue in some settings even in populations with >80% childhood immunization rates. An asymptomatic carrier state exists even among immune individuals. This is because the diphtheria vaccine is what is referred to as a toxoid vaccine - it is designed to cause your immune system to attack the neurotoxin that the diphtheria bacterium secretes rather then the bacterium itself. Fully immunized people don't provide herd immunity benefits to the uninfected because they haven't been purged of diptheria at all - they are in fact still highly virulent carriers of the disease and represent an ever-present danger to those that have not been vaccinated.

And here's the real kicker: Most people who recover from diphtheria do not develop immunity to its neurotoxin! They need to be immunized soon after recovery. The only way to reliably obtain immunity to diphtheria is to get vaccinated. Otherwise, you may as well be playing in traffic.

mean_liar wrote:So besides dodging the part in #1 and #4 about the demographic similarity of the infected populations in the NIS as well as the very specific instructions given once and then elucidated, what the fuck else are you doing here?

I didn't dodge your assertions - I simply ignored them because they are retarded. Diphtheria is floating around EVERYWHERE. It doesn't matter if you're living large in a New York penthouse or in the filth of some godforsaken African jungle hell - you're surrounded by diphtheria bacterium! The only thing that stands between you and a dance with the "the strangling angel of children" is whether or not you're up to date on your booster shots or not.

So I highly recommend that you 1) get vaccinated against diphtheria and 2) suck a barrel of cocks.

So, you don't read what's written, you ask factitious questions with no interest in their results, and you like to complain.

Got it.

Kaelik wrote:I specifically did not ask for it at all, I made a fucking joke about how you make bullshit up. Like this post, where you made up the part about me asking for that information.

mean_liar wrote:

Kaelik wrote:You seriously have presented not a single shred of evidence that auto-immune infections are actually on the rise.

I genuinely would not be surprised if when I did your research for you, and looked for trends in auto-immune disorders, that I would find them falling relative to population, because you have proven to be so wrong about everything that it appears the universe itself is purposefully altering itself to make you more wrong.

Oh shit I guess the NIH is against Big Science too.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/925496/Prog ... e-Research

"Though each of the autoimmune diseases is relatively rare, as a group they are among the most prevalent in the United States, affecting between 14.7 and 23.5 million people – up to eight percent of the population. They also are a leading cause of death among young and middle-aged women. For reasons that are poorly understood, the incidence and prevalence of autoimmune diseases is rising."

I posted this earlier (read it yourself for fun and profit on p8) but hey, I guess since it conflicts with your assumptions its full of shit. What's notable is that the US uses more vaccinations than any other country and has the highest prevalence, but hey that's probably just some NIH bullshit to fight Big Science on behalf of Nurgle. Or something. Those crazy kooks at the NIH!

Have some more!

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/extract/346/22/1749
http://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/ea/0 ... 16s3.1.htm
http://tinyurl.com/yesxtsg
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2156/5/5
http://www.neurology.org/cgi/content/citation/73/8/578
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/jour ... 6/abstract

Those are all a bunch of bullshit websites though, because I linked to them.

Kaelik wrote:Where you make up all this shit with no evidence. You have presented zero evidence that spreading out frequencies reduces unknown risks.

I guess you missed my previous post, and the two other posts where this came up, which is the very same post that you then went on to comment about.

mean_liar wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/yg8d5ct

"Results
Among 11, 531 children who received at least 4 doses of DPT, the risk of asthma was reduced to ½ in children whose first dose of DPT was delayed by more than 2 months. The likelihood of asthma in children with delays in all 3 doses was 0.39 (95% CI, 0.18-0.86).

Conclusion
We found a negative association between delay in administration of the first dose of whole-cell DPT immunization in childhood and the development of asthma; the association was greater with delays in all of the first 3 doses. The mechanism for this phenomenon requires further research."

Moving on...

Kaelik wrote:Slower injection resulted in lower cases of child onset asthma? You mean the kind that people grow out of? Yes. Making someone's immune system work really hard to immunize itself against diseases sometimes results in it getting too active and a temporary, almost completely harmless condition. So fucking what? Nobody but you is concerned about temporary conditions from overstimulated immune systems.

Thank you for finally noticing the link! I'm sure that the correlation is not worth further study and we can wrap everything up and go home. I'm sure they were just joking with the whole, "this requires further study" bit. Nothing to see here!

Kaelik wrote:You were complaining about auto-immune disorders. What happened to that? Did you actually just mean asthma only this whole time?

Actually, that's just off of the one PubMed search; it happened to be on asthma because that just happened to be what I had in mind at the time.

Here are recent studies linking vaccination with various, more serious autoimmune disorders. They're from the first 8 results off of a PubMed search for "lupus vaccination":

http://tinyurl.com/yg9cyrz
http://tinyurl.com/ylkycwt
http://tinyurl.com/yhh6nrp

Ganbare Gincun wrote:

mean_liar wrote:Unfortunately, THE RESEARCH DOESN'T EXIST. (EDIT: Not conclusively, anyway). What the fuck do you want, a link to a Google page with no results?

So if the research exists, but you admit yourself that it doesn't support your hypothesis, why are you still trying to convince people that your assertions regarding the dangers of vaccinations should be taken seriously?

Actually, the research is inconclusive because it supports both positions. I stated that with links supporting my position; I skipped the ones that don't because they're obviously assumed.

I didn't dodge your assertions - I simply ignored them because they are retarded. Diphtheria is floating around EVERYWHERE. It doesn't matter if you're living large in a New York penthouse or in the filth of some godforsaken African jungle hell - you're surrounded by diphtheria bacterium! The only thing that stands between you and a dance with the "the strangling angel of children" is whether or not you're up to date on your booster shots or not.

Do you have an explanation for Spain's immunization rate being only 29% ten years ago without a single case?

http://tinyurl.com/yzuzntt

However, they haven't had any cases reported to the WHO since 1997:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Diphterie.png

Because that kicks a large hole in your assumption about the disease being ready to pounce.

mean_liar wrote:Yes, this is entirely true. What that number is appears to be variable, but low in developed countries.

For example, Spain was at 29% immunity ten years ago:

http://tinyurl.com/yzuzntt

However, they haven't had any cases reported to the WHO since 1997:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Diphterie.png

I'm going to attribute that to their rising diphtheria childhood vaccination rates, which rose from 83.8% in 1992 to 96.4% in 2007.

mean_liar wrote:So when do the claxons go off and you force everyone to get a shot that could kill them?

The point where you realize that vaccinations are the only thing standing between you and thousands of dead children?

mean_liar wrote:Do you have an explanation for Spain's immunization rate being only 29% ten years ago without a single case?

http://tinyurl.com/yzuzntt

The population that they are referring to in this study was merely a representative sample of the Spanish population. As per the abstract:

A total of 1907 men and 2037 women in the 5–59 years age range were stratified by sex and age. Concentrations of toxin antibodies were measured using a commercial ELISA kit. Samples with titres≥0.1 IU/ml were considered to show full protection.

Only 26% (95% CI: 25–28%) of the overall population studied was fully protected. The highest number of subjects with uncertain or no protection was found in the 20–39 age group (>85%). The prevalence of fully protected subjects progressively declined from 51% for the 5–12 year age group, to 14% for the 30–39 year age group, whereas it increased to 20% and 35% for the 40–49 and the 50–59 year age groups, respectively (p<0.0001).

This study does NOT claim that only 26% of Spainards were vaccinated against diphtheria 10 years ago.

And the conclusion of their study?

These results stress the need to intensify vaccination programs in adolescents and adults with periodic booster doses of diphtheria toxoid.

mean_liar wrote:So, you don't read what's written, you ask factitious questions with no interest in their results, and you like to complain.

Got it.

Kaelik wrote:I specifically did not ask for it at all, I made a fucking joke about how you make bullshit up. Like this post, where you made up the part about me asking for that information.

mean_liar wrote:

Kaelik wrote:You seriously have presented not a single shred of evidence that auto-immune infections are actually on the rise.

I genuinely would not be surprised if when I did your research for you, and looked for trends in auto-immune disorders, that I would find them falling relative to population, because you have proven to be so wrong about everything that it appears the universe itself is purposefully altering itself to make you more wrong.

Suck a barrel of cocks you asshole. Where is the fucking question?

So far you've:

1) Lied in claiming that I asked for it.
2) Followed that up with a lie much later claiming that I didn't read the links I asked for (Hint: I didn't ask for them. So of course I didn't read them.)
3) Followed that up with a third assertion that I ask factitious questions not looking for the response, when I still never asked the fucking question.

Point to a single mother fucking question mark anywhere in that fucking quote you lying asshole! Just fucking one!

mean_liar wrote:

Kaelik wrote:Where you make up all this shit with no evidence. You have presented zero evidence that spreading out frequencies reduces unknown risks.

I guess you missed my previous post, and the two other posts where this came up, which is the very same post that you then went on to comment about.

Hey fucking asshole: step 1) Let's add the part I wrote that you cut out because it proves how stupid you are: "you are genuinely claiming that an action would save us from unknown risks, which is all kind of stupid."

Because of course, childhood Asthma is a known risk. And you can't possibly demonstrate that something decreases unknown risks unless that thing is suicide, because unknown risks are definitionally unknown.

But you know what, we've known about Childhood Asthma from overactive immune systems in children for fucking decades. That's why someone actually thought that spacing it out might decrease the incidence rate. We know what causes the asthma, but asthma that lasts less than a year and only occurs in some cases is totally worth not dieing from any diseases in the several fucking years it would take to vaccinate someone slowly over time against the many things we need to vaccinate against.

mean_liar wrote:Moving on...

Moving right past the part where you have no evidence or even justification for believing that spreading out vaccinations into multiple shots might help...

If you had demonstrated even the basest of medical knowledge, I'd say this is because you realized that in fact, multiple vaccines per shot excites the immune system less in total than multiple separate ones, because the reaction to each disease is less when you are reacting to multiples at once.

But since you haven't demonstrated any knowledge at all, I'm going to assume it's because you are fucking stupid, and you make a habit of making bald assertions based on your feelings with no evidence at all, then following it up with ignoring the issue when people point that out.

mean_liar wrote:Thank you for finally noticing the link! I'm sure that the correlation is not worth further study and we can wrap everything up and go home. I'm sure they were just joking with the whole, "this requires further study" bit. Nothing to see here!

We know where the correlation is because we know the cause of child onset asthma! We know that it has nothing to do with late onset lupus.

mean_liar wrote:http://tinyurl.com/yg9cyrz
http://tinyurl.com/ylkycwt
http://tinyurl.com/yhh6nrp

I know your strategy is being a lying bastard and link whoring, and hoping people will just believe the links support your case. So just this once, because it's the shortest link whore yet, I'll actually bitch slap you:

Link 1: Tests show that the tests for Lupus indicators did not see any increase at all following major vaccination campaigns.

Specifically proves vaccines don't cause Lupus. Fuck you liar.

Link 2: very rare cases of autoimmune disorders immediately following vaccinations that cause nerve damage (then the auto-immune activation fades away) (looked as far as seven years post vaccination, but only found instances within 3 months, very uncommon, 37 reported cases total ever). Not Lupus. But even more so, it's exactly what you fucking expect from a vaccine. You make the immune system active fighting an imaginary disease, and some times it will accidentally fight too hard. Some very few times.

Link 3: The Hep B vaccine caused ten cases of Lupus before it was discontinued. That's the exact reason it was discontinued.

Also, the mean effect time was 56 days from vaccine to diagnosis. So yeah, we know when vaccines cause Lupus because it occurs quickly.

So in conclusion:

None of you links justify a single thing you have ever said, and mostly they completely contradict you by showing that bad effects occur very soon after vaccination, and in fact, are incredibly fucking rare, except in the discontinued vaccine.

Ganbare Gincun wrote:

mean_liar wrote:For example, Spain was at 29% immunity ten years ago:

http://tinyurl.com/yzuzntt

I'm going to attribute that to their rising diphtheria childhood vaccination rates

What then is the role of the adult population's vulnerability on diphtheria outbreak rates? Is it negligible?

I haven't asserted that the 29% immunity rate was the result of any particular schedule of vaccination, so I don't know why you bolded that.


Kaelik, when you say, "you've provided no evidence for X" you really shouldn't get so upset when someone posts the evidence.

Thank you for your grammar analysis of "unknown risk". I think what I meant was clear from context, but I guess I was wrong. Please just read that as "risk" associated with the state of contradictory research results.

Moving on to childhood-onset asthma, you've provided no evidence that it's duration is only a year, or even short-term. I'm aware that there are childhood asthmas that last a lifetime - my brother has one - so its strange to see your assertion that it can't and doesn't. If you post evidence can I get really irate and pretend like I didn't want to see it?

Kaelik wrote:Moving right past the part where you have no evidence or even justification for believing that spreading out vaccinations into multiple shots might help...

I thought the study implying that longer delays between boosters was tied to lower rates of asthma would have been a decent justification. However, here are some links tying the aluminum in adjuvants to adverse reactions; I'm including them because the more immunizations that are included in a single shot, the more adjuvant exposure you get.

Adjuvant content (note aluminum hydroxide content):
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/c ... /6/1394/T3

Here are two recent studies linking aluminum hydroxide to adverse reactions:

http://tinyurl.com/ykypv9t
http://tinyurl.com/yapbt9v

Kaelik wrote:I know your strategy is being a lying bastard and link whoring...

Thanks for reading the links! Note that I posted them because you asserted that I was only linking to asthma because it was the only example out there.

I need some clarification from you - you seem to simultaneously claim that vaccinations aren't linked to autoimmune disorders and that autoimmune disorders are expected from vaccination.


Link 1: http://tinyurl.com/yg9cyrz

You are correct that it doesn't link lupus to vaccines. What it does do is links it to a disease only discovered in 1993 where one's own white blood cells eat your muscle tissue - an autoimmune disorder.


Link 2: http://tinyurl.com/ylkycwt

Thanks for reading the link and agreeing that autoimmune disorders can result from vaccination.


Link 3: http://tinyurl.com/yhh6nrp

Currently the CDC recommends that all children receive this immunization, so I'm curious why you think its discontinued. Yes, it is lupus.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/hep ... lt.htm#who

Under no circumstances are we going to change our behavior in response to "unknown unknowns" because that's fucking insane. When we have
"known unknowns" we change our behavior in that we research them. When we have "known knowns" we change our behavior to fit the data.

The data show that we should not discontinue vaccinations in general. The data show that some vaccination formulations work poorly or have harmful side effects and then we pull those ones. Automatically. No one needs to ride in from the outside to demand crazy crap or wild rethinking of our strategy, because out strategy is already the best one.

If anything, we need someone to go out there and get better compliance out of the lay public. And no, Mean Liar I stopped reading your links altogether. If you cry wolf 20 times in one thread I am not going to bother following up on your links any more. Seriously, you're so completely and demonstrably wrong that there is nothing you could say that would make me take you seriously on this issue.

-Username17

FrankTrollman wrote:And no, Mean Liar I stopped reading your links altogether. If you cry wolf 20 times in one thread I am not going to bother following up on your links any more. Seriously, you're so completely and demonstrably wrong that there is nothing you could say that would make me take you seriously on this issue.

The links aren't my research - generally they're done in research institutions for academic journals. Sorry if you got confused.

-Username17

mean_liar wrote:Kaelik, when you say, "you've provided no evidence for X" you really shouldn't get so upset when someone posts the evidence.

Hey Liar. Stop Fucking Lying. You Liar. I didn't get upset at all when you posted it. I just ignored it. I did get upset when you started lying about me asking for it. You Liar. Stop Lying.

mean_liar wrote:I thought the study implying that longer delays between boosters was tied to lower rates of asthma would have been a decent justification. However, here are some links tying the aluminum in adjuvants to adverse reactions; I'm including them because the more immunizations that are included in a single shot, the more adjuvant exposure you get.

You are retarded. A lot. You would get more adjuvant if you spread the shots out than if you combined them. Go murder yourself.

mean_liar wrote:I need some clarification from you - you seem to simultaneously claim that vaccinations aren't linked to autoimmune disorders and that autoimmune disorders are expected from vaccination.

No, in fact what I've actually claimed is that when vaccines are administered they incite the immune system to attack a non existent disease, and as such, the short term likelihood of having an auto-immune response goes up. But we know this, and have known this for a long time. So such short term effects are well studied and predicted, and we know how incredibly fuckin rare they are.

You are claiming that because your immune system is active now, Every case of Lupus that people get 30 years from now is the fault of evil vaccines, and we should just assume that evil vaccines are the cause of all auto-immune disorders. In fact, if you go longer than a year with no auto-immune effect, you are basically guaranteed to never have a problem. Fuck you.

mean_liar wrote:Link 1: http://tinyurl.com/yg9cyrz

You are correct that it doesn't link lupus to vaccines. What it does do is links it to a disease only discovered in 1993 where one's own white blood cells eat your muscle tissue - an autoimmune disorder.

No it doesn't you fucking liar! It specifically concludes that the disease has absolutely no link to vaccines. That is the actual conclusion. No fucking link whatsoever. They studied to see if it had a link. They found the answer to be no. Fuck you in the ass you liar.

mean_liar wrote:Link 2: http://tinyurl.com/ylkycwt

Thanks for reading the link and agreeing that autoimmune disorders can result from vaccination.

Fuck you liar! Stop Lying.

It shows that 37 people ever had nerve damage from a short duration auto immune disorder within 3 months that goes away, and that zero people contracted it in any time after a year. Do you even know what that means? It means you are entirely 100% wrong about everything you whiny bitch ass conspiracy theorist.

mean_liar wrote:Link 3: http://tinyurl.com/yhh6nrp

Currently the CDC recommends that all children receive this immunization, so I'm curious why you think its discontinued. Yes, it is lupus.

Hey guess what fucker. Hep B vaccine is actually a name for multiple different things. The original Hep B vaccine was discontinued for sucking. It was replaced by Hep B vaccines that don't suck. This happened within a year of introduction, because we noticed the problem and fixed it that fucking quickly.

I had this meandering post written up to riposte you point-by-point but then realized I had completely misinterpreted the article out of the 1st link.

So... yeah. I think I'm going to not post about this any more.

mean_liar wrote:I had this meandering post written up to riposte you point-by-point but then realized I had completely misinterpreted the article out of the 1st link.

So... yeah. I think I'm going to not post about this any more.

I don't agree with your views, but conceding at this point is rather mature of you. Good job being one of the few people on the internet who can admit they were wrong.

Aw fuck, I missed all the nerd rage. Damnit.

Just got linked here from rpg.net. So that we all know. [whisper]Oh, and look at the rightmost circle in the row.[/whisper]

Kaelik wrote:Making someone's immune system work really hard to immunize itself against diseases sometimes results in it getting too active and a temporary, almost completely harmless condition.

Just so you are aware, according to the Asthma and Allergy Foundation of America, asthma kills people, too - apparently about 4,000 people each year (and it's considered a contributing factor in another 7,000 deaths a year).